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	<title>Comments on: Take Back Skepticism, Part I: The Elephant in the Room</title>
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	<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/</link>
	<description>Knowledge, science, reason, education, philosophy, behavior, politics, religion, and B.S.</description>
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		<title>By: While I Was Gone&#8230; A Fortnight Of Mostly-Offline Skepticism</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-2011</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[While I Was Gone&#8230; A Fortnight Of Mostly-Offline Skepticism]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 12:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-2011</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Twitter/Facebook -- firstly, I posted in order to link to Barbara Drescher&#8217;s blogposts on &#8216;Taking Back Skepticism&#8217; and hopefully helped them reach a wider audience. I noticed a few people re-Tweeting them, so I [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Twitter/Facebook &#8212; firstly, I posted in order to link to Barbara Drescher&#8217;s blogposts on &#8216;Taking Back Skepticism&#8217; and hopefully helped them reach a wider audience. I noticed a few people re-Tweeting them, so I [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Skepticlawyer &#187; The Two Cultures Redux</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1639</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skepticlawyer &#187; The Two Cultures Redux]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 08:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] into attacking all religion (and religious believers) as an undifferentiated lump. Many have tied atheism to political progressivism, forgetting that some of Richard Dawkins&#8217; most powerful arguments in The God Delusion came [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] into attacking all religion (and religious believers) as an undifferentiated lump. Many have tied atheism to political progressivism, forgetting that some of Richard Dawkins&#8217; most powerful arguments in The God Delusion came [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1582</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 05:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m afraid that I don&#039;t know what you are saying, either, and you seem to have missed my points. I am not arguing about differences of opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid that I don&#8217;t know what you are saying, either, and you seem to have missed my points. I am not arguing about differences of opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike McRae</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike McRae]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 04:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Erik, I&#039;m not sure what it is you&#039;re saying. By one token, you&#039;ve suggested that everybody is different and fiercely independent. In the same breath you&#039;re then claiming we all share the same goal.

The fact is, when you look closer at the movement, those shared goals aren&#039;t as identical as it would first appear. There are not only different strategies and angles of approach, but significantly different shades of desire. Some are keen to address the nature of religious privilege, wishing to enhance the social respect of atheists without caring less about the wellbeing of people of faith. Others are focused on providing sound scientific literacy, without minding if its shares ground with metaphysical and sacred beliefs. Drawing a line and claiming they aren&#039;t true skeptics because they don&#039;t share your view of the overarching goals is to commit a clear logical fallacy.

Far from semantics, such discussions as these are vital for retaining the strength behind skeptical thinking and keeping it from being a homogeneous belief system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik, I&#8217;m not sure what it is you&#8217;re saying. By one token, you&#8217;ve suggested that everybody is different and fiercely independent. In the same breath you&#8217;re then claiming we all share the same goal.</p>
<p>The fact is, when you look closer at the movement, those shared goals aren&#8217;t as identical as it would first appear. There are not only different strategies and angles of approach, but significantly different shades of desire. Some are keen to address the nature of religious privilege, wishing to enhance the social respect of atheists without caring less about the wellbeing of people of faith. Others are focused on providing sound scientific literacy, without minding if its shares ground with metaphysical and sacred beliefs. Drawing a line and claiming they aren&#8217;t true skeptics because they don&#8217;t share your view of the overarching goals is to commit a clear logical fallacy.</p>
<p>Far from semantics, such discussions as these are vital for retaining the strength behind skeptical thinking and keeping it from being a homogeneous belief system.</p>
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		<title>By: Dodging Elephants</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1572</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dodging Elephants]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 02:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Read more [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Read more [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1570</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[admin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 01:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I enjoyed that piece, Matt.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed that piece, Matt.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean the Blogonaut</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1567</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean the Blogonaut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 01:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my recent experience the thought is rarely independent nor especially robust.

I am all for differences of opinion, for reasoned, even fierce debate as long as those who are in the debate, those who are making the noise actually have some expertise in the area.

I was astonished for example at a recent high profile sceptical group who awarded a derogatory prize to one of our educational institutions over changes to the national curriculum.

This group to my knowledge did not engage with the curriculum body, did not engage any curriculum experts, and did not make one bit of difference to the perceived problem they were trying to address.

As a result I do not participate in organised scepticism, and while I can&#039;t be sure, there are I suspect others like myself who will walk away because idiots are waving a flag and asking sceptics to rally under it.

I disagree that differences of opinion means we are thinking.  Holding an opinion and defending it, requires little thought.  Of those two situations mentioned DBAD and elevatorgate, lack of critical thought and lack of ability to perceive that one might  be wrong were in clear evidence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my recent experience the thought is rarely independent nor especially robust.</p>
<p>I am all for differences of opinion, for reasoned, even fierce debate as long as those who are in the debate, those who are making the noise actually have some expertise in the area.</p>
<p>I was astonished for example at a recent high profile sceptical group who awarded a derogatory prize to one of our educational institutions over changes to the national curriculum.</p>
<p>This group to my knowledge did not engage with the curriculum body, did not engage any curriculum experts, and did not make one bit of difference to the perceived problem they were trying to address.</p>
<p>As a result I do not participate in organised scepticism, and while I can&#8217;t be sure, there are I suspect others like myself who will walk away because idiots are waving a flag and asking sceptics to rally under it.</p>
<p>I disagree that differences of opinion means we are thinking.  Holding an opinion and defending it, requires little thought.  Of those two situations mentioned DBAD and elevatorgate, lack of critical thought and lack of ability to perceive that one might  be wrong were in clear evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Erikthebassist</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1559</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Erikthebassist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 20:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Take back skepticism? WTF? Like it&#039;s a singular idea that requires rigid interpretation and leadership? I decided long ago that organizing skeptics and / or atheists was like herding cats. We are by nature fiercely independently thinking individuals. If we have nothing else in common, this one fact alone renders your entire diatribe useless. 

I say let the in fighting continue. I&#039;ve had my own opinions about social issues and politics radically changed in the many years since I&#039;ve become aware of skepticism or atheism as movements, and it&#039;s the blowouts like DBAD and elevatorgate that do more to inform my views on these things than anything else. I celebrate our differences of opinion because it means we&#039;re thinking. At the end of the day, we all have the same goal, the reduction of pseudoscience and magical thinking so far as it negatively affects our quality of life. The rest is just semantic garnishment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take back skepticism? WTF? Like it&#8217;s a singular idea that requires rigid interpretation and leadership? I decided long ago that organizing skeptics and / or atheists was like herding cats. We are by nature fiercely independently thinking individuals. If we have nothing else in common, this one fact alone renders your entire diatribe useless. </p>
<p>I say let the in fighting continue. I&#8217;ve had my own opinions about social issues and politics radically changed in the many years since I&#8217;ve become aware of skepticism or atheism as movements, and it&#8217;s the blowouts like DBAD and elevatorgate that do more to inform my views on these things than anything else. I celebrate our differences of opinion because it means we&#8217;re thinking. At the end of the day, we all have the same goal, the reduction of pseudoscience and magical thinking so far as it negatively affects our quality of life. The rest is just semantic garnishment.</p>
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		<title>By: No More Banging My Head Against the Wall &#124; Tangled Up in Blue Guy</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1557</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[No More Banging My Head Against the Wall &#124; Tangled Up in Blue Guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Barbara Drescher illustrates my own frustrations: Some argued that all terrorists are mentally ill; there is no difference between Breivik and an organization like Al-Qaeda. Or they described all terrorists as ‘evil’ – an evil created by religion, as if religion is the only reason that people commit terrible acts. This simply is not reality. Psychologists have studied ‘evil’ relentlessly since the atrocities of the holocaust during World War II and we have learned that average people will commit some fairly heinous acts if situational factors are aligned. If we do not recognize that good, sane people are capable of bad acts, we will be helpless to prevent it. What’s more, such extreme ‘othering’ may make us feel better, but it closes our eyes to our own potential for wrongdoing. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Barbara Drescher illustrates my own frustrations: Some argued that all terrorists are mentally ill; there is no difference between Breivik and an organization like Al-Qaeda. Or they described all terrorists as ‘evil’ – an evil created by religion, as if religion is the only reason that people commit terrible acts. This simply is not reality. Psychologists have studied ‘evil’ relentlessly since the atrocities of the holocaust during World War II and we have learned that average people will commit some fairly heinous acts if situational factors are aligned. If we do not recognize that good, sane people are capable of bad acts, we will be helpless to prevent it. What’s more, such extreme ‘othering’ may make us feel better, but it closes our eyes to our own potential for wrongdoing. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: David Bailey</title>
		<link>http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/2011/08/take-back-skepticism-part-i-the-elephant-in-the-room/comment-page-1/#comment-1554</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Bailey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/?p=964#comment-1554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Haven&#039;t really called myself an atheist in years, although I admit to using the term when I just want to get it over with quickly. It&#039;s a negative word, describing me in terms of what I don&#039;t believe in, rather than what my actual philosophy is. I prefer to say &#039;naturalist&#039;, which often opens up a bunch of questions. That&#039;s why I still pull &#039;atheist&#039; out every so often, because sometimes I just haven&#039;t got the time to carry on a discussion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t really called myself an atheist in years, although I admit to using the term when I just want to get it over with quickly. It&#8217;s a negative word, describing me in terms of what I don&#8217;t believe in, rather than what my actual philosophy is. I prefer to say &#8216;naturalist&#8217;, which often opens up a bunch of questions. That&#8217;s why I still pull &#8216;atheist&#8217; out every so often, because sometimes I just haven&#8217;t got the time to carry on a discussion.</p>
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